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Possibly chylothorax...I found this to be the leading cause of fluid build up in a cats lungs.. I found this info on another site but the vet should have taken samples of the fluid to figure out exactly what the cause was...Your post made it sound like the vet only tested for rhinotracheitis. I feel very bad about your loss. I would find another vet for your other pets. If you're in the mississauga area I can recommend a very good one. At present, two main processes are known to lead to chylothorax. Trauma. Not uncommonly, injury to the chest cavity can lead to chylothorax. Automobile injuries or falls from a building are often reported with traumatic chylothorax. Increased pressure within the thoracic duct or veins. Associated causes include heart failure, heartworms, and tumors within the chest. Fungal disease in the chest is another cause of chylothorax. When the cause cannot be identified after appropriate diagnostic procedures, it is called "idiopathic chylothorax." More than 50% of cases are in this category. How is the diagnosis made? The following tests are usually performed to achieve a diagnosis of chylothorax. Thoracic radiography (chest X-ray). This will confirm the presence of fluid in the pleural space but does not characterize the type of fluid. Fluid analysis. A small amount of fluid must be obtained from the chest cavity for analysis. First, it is inspected for color. Chyle is typically white or light pink in color. Next, chemical tests can be used to determine the triglyceride (fat) content of the fluid; it is typically high when the fluid is chyle. Finally, when examined under the microscope, it is found to have large numbers of lymphocytes (a type of white blood cell found in lymphatic fluid). Additionally, the fluid may be cultured for bacteria but it is virtually always sterile. Once the presence of chylothorax is confirmed, additional tests will be performed in an attempt to identify an underlying cause. Such tests include routine blood work, additional chest and abdominal radiographs, tests for leukemia virus and immunodeficiency virus, cardiac tests, and heartworm testing. What is the treatment? Measures to improve the cat’s respiratory capacity are usually the first steps in therapy. Fluid can be drained from the pleural space with a syringe and needle. In almost all cases, the fluid will reform and a drain tube will need to be surgically implanted to facilitate daily drainage. This tube may be left in place until chyle accumulation stops. If fluid is still accumulating after 1-2 weeks, thoracotomy (exploratory chest surgery) may be recommended to search for the underlying cause or to repair a torn thoracic duct which will not heal. When the cause is trauma, most cats will heal on their own and surgery will not be needed. Feline chylothorax is a disease under active research. Some new treatment modalities may be on the horizon. Regardless, the most successful therapy will be directed toward treating the underlying disorder.

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I'm no veterinarian, but it certainly sounds like liver disease/failure to me.... Your cat couldn't have gotten into any acetaminophin did she? Many cold products on the market are combos now - and acetaminophin (Tylenol) is highly toxic to cats. ONE pill is enough to kill a cat.....from liver failure. Just one question: why would it being the weekend matter? Our vet's office is closed on the weekends - but they have an emergency number - and we've used it! We are very glad we did for little Ruby who got sick and was not getting better on the antibiotics. By the Saturday night I was worried and on Sunday when I couldn't get her to drink, I phoned the vet. He met my hubby at the clinic and started her on a whole new course of antibiotics - by injection. He said that if we had waited, the outcome could have been very different: the infection had gotten into her bloodstream.... My sincerest condolences on the loss of your little friend, and I hope you find some answers soon....

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Thanks for your detailed response. I'm not sure it would've been chylothorax, but I'll definitely check that out. The fluid pulled from her abdomen was yellow and she didn't seem to have a breathing problem (yet) after the "cold" went away (about two weeks into it). So I can't say for sure that there was fluid in her lungs---but when they tried to put the catheter in her veins to euthanize, fluid came pouring out, so the fluid was probably building up everywhere. The tech and vet (not the original vet) were astounded. I'll look into chylothorax though. Do you know of any other symptoms?

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Gintz: There's no way she got into Tylenol or any other drug as my husband and I don't take any drugs, prescription or otherwise. Also, our cats have a cat yard outside that is completely fenced in so they don't roam. Also, we live 80 miles from the nearest vet and 30 miles from the nearest town. We basically live in the "middle of the bush". Our vet's do have emergency and we have called it many times over the years. When the vet thinks it's an emergency we leave at once for the 1 1/2 hour drive there. Sometimes (like in the case of my dog who died suddenly last month) the vet will say there is no point in taking the drive as your pet will die on the way (or the vet will give us help for what to do while on the long drive to the office or at home to try and save our animal). We called the vet's emergency line twice this last weekend. The first time we spoke with a second vet and he said not to give her any more fluids and see how that goes. The second time we called (the next day--Sunday) a third vet answered. She didn't know what to tell us, except to continue to give fluids. The red and tearing skin, and the fluids leaking through her chest weren't discovered until very shortly before her death, though. So none of us knew how severe the illness really was. So, as far as the vet's and I were concerned, my cat had rhino with maybe a secondary infection that was making it difficult for her to absorb the sub-q's. We thought she was getting weaker and worse because she wasn't eating and also because she wasn't absorbing the fluids. The thought was that with more fluids and food, she'd get better. Only at the very end did the situation become obviously grave. I do feel, though, that all three vet's could've done a little more listening instead of talking, maybe they would've had a light bulb go off. I'm really trying to find a holistic vet in the Yukon because they seem to take more time to listen to all your concerns, observations, and ideas.

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Chylothorax would not present as an upper respiratory type infection or abdominal swelling. The swelling and pressure begins primarily in the chest cavity of the animal (humans included). That said, Chylothrorax is present not only from trauma but from underlying organ failure (usually heart). The redness of the skin screams liver and/or kidney disease. Did your vet take any blood tests? So very many things can go wrong - and quickly - that this is a horrible learning experience for both you and your vet. Your vet needed to be more thorough and less assumptive - and you needed to listen to that little voice in your head that said "something's just not right" - and then bring your cat in a lot sooner. If you were force feeding her and giving her subcutaneous fluids, the vet should have been more involved than it seems he was. Also, in giving fluids that way, it is always advised to that: If there is still fluid under the skin from previous SQ administration when your cat is next due for fluids, no further fluids should be given and you should check with your veterinarian. Did your vet do an autopsy? I would think that they would want to know some answers, too....

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After reading the symptoms you had listed, I am almost 100% certain the cat died of what is called Feline Infectious Peritonitis (F.I.P.). the symptoms are identical There are two kinds of FIP- wet and dry, this was definitly wet. Please don't be too angry at your vet. this condition is not common. we have only seen a few cases in many years at our clinic. some vets go their whole practice without seeing it. symptoms are: lethargy rapid weight loss fever anorexia vomiting/diarrhea anemia respiratory distress painful abdomen dehydration ascites and icterus and in some cases, a mass in the abdomen This disease is contageous, affecting cats mostly aged 6months to 5 years, and cats older than 10 it can be transmitted through oral or nasal secretions, ingestion of feces, and through the placenta.

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Gintz is probably right about the chylothorax.. Try googling 'calicivirus' this is the only virus I could find that had both fluid in the lungs and abdominal swelling for symptoms.. There is also a list of other symptoms but they did not include skin & fur coming off .. I did not see that symptom for any feline URI virus.. Very scary indeed. You should read up on how these different URI viruses can be spread in a multi-cat household.. You might want to clean out litter boxes and food dishes thoroughly and scrub any other areas where the virus could be spread (if that's what it was). Like I said.. very scary!

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I think her kidneys were definitely failing, but as a result of something else. Do you think kidney disease would have all the symptoms I've mentioned--and would've killed a cat that fast after the first symptom appeared? Also, we didn't think liver disease because she was still peeing (not very much) and she wasn't jaundiced. Although, at the end, I'm sure her liver was going, too. Our vet didn't take blood initially because he "wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt" that she was going to recover with the food and fluids and that there was not an underlying disease. We were told by the second vet on the weekend, after we noticed the bigger abdomen, to bring our cat in on Monday to do a blood test, but by then it was too late. He also didn't seem to think it was an emergency. I kept telling the original vet throughout the first week that my cat wasn't absorbing the fluids and he said "all cats are different. Some don't absorb it that fast." And so I'd be waiting more than a day for her fluid pocket to disappear before I gave her more. I also started giving her only small amounts because she didn't do well with more than 100mls (even though he told me to give more). He said that some cats feel a little worse after fluids, but that's nothing to be concerned about. I tried my best to work with what he was saying and what I felt. I didn't blindly and dumbly go with whatever my vet was saying. But when you live in a place like I do and you don't have access to many resources, you have to take what you can get. I tried to do my best based on what he was saying, what I felt, and what I had learned and was researching. I DID go with my gut feelings (that's why I took her to the vet the first time, shortly after getting her "cold," even though most cats do fine with rhino and not much can be done about it anyway. Also, that's why I phoned the vet several times throughout the week, but I'm sure they were just getting annoyed with me as though I was overly concerned. Also, that's why I phoned the emergency line, and was prepared to bring her in to emergency, but the vet didn't think I had to.) The vets always seemed to think my gut feelings were off, and made me feel like an idiot---kind of like I'm feeling now. My major problem may have been that I didn't demand more. The vet's office here is so busy that I always feel rushed and this is part of the problem. They don't take the time to hear you out. Another part of the problem is that I was forced to speak to three different vets, who all had slightly different takes on the matter. The vets didn't do an autopsy--the woman who euthanized didn't seem that interested, especially because the fluid came back as a lower protein than is usual for FIP. If it had been higher protein I think she would've been more interested in finding out if it was FIP. Also, I would've said no--the circumstances of this particular euthanization were worse than usual and I just wanted to take my poor kitty home. They couldn't find a vein (little circulation left) and they put her through A LOT of distress trying to find one. After all my cat and I had been through with these vets I was in no mood to give over to science at that moment.

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Thanks, Ginger. It was definitely scary. And I've been trying my best all along to take precautions. But many of these diseases can be transmitted years before symptoms appear. And because all of my cats were older rescues, I have no idea what happened to them in their early years. We did everything to keep our cat isolated from the others, but who knows if transmission had already taken place. As you can imagine, I have been tirelessly searching the internet and reading all the books I can get my hands on, for any and all information. I've read extensively on Calicivirus and just don't think it fits. The closest diseases seem to be Feline Infectious Peritonitis or Feline Leukemia---However, Feline Leukemia doesn't seem to kill so fast. But nothing I've read on Feline Infectious Peritonitis says anything about the skin. It's just so confusing. I plan on talking to the vets this week to see what they think in hindsight. Thanks for everyone's response so far. It means a lot to me that you care to take the time and try and shed some light.

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VEREN: I mentioned FIP to two of the vets and they didn't really pick up on it. I'm not angry that they may not have had information or knowledge of FIP, I'm angry that they treated me like I was overreacting. I'm sure they didn't know much about it. Especially since they practice in the Yukon and if FIP is supposed to affect as little as 1% of cats, imagine how few cases are ever found here! It was definitely the effusive form of FIP, if it was FIP. The last vet, before my cat was euthanized, took a fluid sample and although it was yellow like the fluid found in FIP cats, she said it was of a lower protein than found in FIP. Would this necessarily cancel out FIP? Or because of that, would the lower protein, yellow fluid be indicative of another disease? Could you tell me also, Veren, why her skin would've been coming off so easily, though, and why she was leaking THROUGH her skin? I didn't find those symptoms in any information I found on FIP. FIP is only contagious during the initial transmission, which could occur weeks or even years ago (I think). And since my cats haven't come into contact with any other cats for years and we haven't had a new cat in the house for years, also---do you think they would've passed it from one to another? Also, it's the coronavirus that leads to FIP and most cats immune systems are strong enough to evade FIP, even if positive for the coronavirus, hence the low percentage of cats affected with FIP (or so I presume to know). Is that actually the case?

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I am so sorry for your loss and that is not the way a pet should go. Wow, you really don't have a smart vet, I would change vets if I were you, I really wouldn't stick with him/her. It sounds like something my kitty passed away from which is simular to exactly what Gintz said except it wasn't from my kitty injesting something he shouldn't have cus the vet did a test on him and it was the Iams food what killed him. Sadly to say, that epidemic better not be out there again. Good luck in finding out what was wrong with your kitty, I think Gintz is on the right track tho.

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The vets always seemed to think my gut feelings were off, and made me feel like an idiot---kind of like I'm feeling now. My major problem may have been that I didn't demand more. This is what I was trying to say - but you said it far better yourself..... Your cat might still have died, but if the vets had taken the time to listen to you, she might have had a fighting chance. Even humans slip through the diagnostic cracks when seen by different doctors each time! I can relate to your drive for veterinary care: growing up on the 'Charlottes we felt blessed when a vet finally located there. Otherwise, it was a tense wait down at the floatplane ramp to load our ailing pet onto the seaplane to be met at the other side by the vet staff. We were fortunate that we had caring pilots who always made room for our animal - even though there was no room for one of us! Hopefully, you can take some solace in the fact that before the illness, she had a very good life with you. As rescues, things usually have happened (or failed to happen) in the animals' early years that can really impact their life expectancy..... BTW: I mentionned the Tylenol because I have one cat that tries to eat everything! One of these days he's going to end up with an obstruction....He's already poisoned himself - and burnt his mouth!

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Gintz, even if I would've done everything right, and demanded the vets listen to me, and somehow coerced them into doing what I thought they should, I'm pretty positive my cat would not have had any fighting chance. I'm upset because had we been able to find out more the last time we were at the vets, had they listened to us, we would not have put her through so much misery for the last five days of her life (force feeding, needles, fluids. And she may have had enough circulation left five days earlier to be able to find a vein to euthanize her without so much pain and distress). If my gut instincts are correct, then she had FIP, and FIP is always fatal (often within days of symptoms appearing)---and the effusive form (which she had) is known to be a terrible death. There have been rare reports of cats recovering with alternative therapies, but there is debate whether these cats actually had FIP. I'm hoping Veren can tell me more about what s/he knows of FIP. BTW: I know of Tylenol poisoning all too well...my father (well meaning and sweetly ignorant) gave 1/2 a tylenol to my childhood cat when she was sick---she nearly died. I don't think I talked to my dad for weeks (I was 12).

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Yes, Fireweed, FIPS is an awful disease - my stepmom lost her rescued Burmese to it. The worst part of the disease (to my mind) is that from initial infection to the disease manifesting can be months or even years. My heart goes out to you and I hope that you can find peace. You did the best you could with the information and help you had. If onlys are plentiful, but useless - unless we use the information and experience gained to help us make our choices the next time around.

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I'm very sorry for both of your loses.. I noticed you mentioned your dog died suddenly last month.. do you know what the cause of death was? Could it be that the both either got into something, or were mistakenly both given the same thing that harmed them? I was looking after my sister's cat many years ago, and came home to find him in very bad shape, very suddenly... by the time I got to the vet's with him his kidney's had shut down and he passed away minutes later. I took his death very hard, I felt like it was all my fault...he was living with me, and he died, so I felt I had basically killed him ('im not much of a cat person,and I was convinced he died because he knew that, even though secretly, i loved him dearly)Shortly after he died, the vet had made a passing comment about how healthy he had been just a few months prior when in for his shots. Looking back years later, he probably didn't mean to imply I had harmed "Scooter", but in the state of mind I was i at the time, I couldn't get past the comment made...so, when given the option for a necropcy or just taken the vets word that it was probably something he ate, or just renal failure due to age etc, I decided it was more humane .... to not have his body cut open.. I know, probably sounds silly, but I loved him and the idea of him being cut open was too much for me to take. ANYWHOO.. a few months later I was talking to a neighbor and found out that 4 cats in the building had died within a month of each other, none were outside cats, and all had all their shots etc.. the vet I went too also treated 3 of the other cats, but didn't mention that to any of them at the time. I called the vet and he just past it off as nothing important, that cats die and the fact that 4 died that lived in the same building wasn't an issue, as hey were all indoor cats, and no common hallways were shared etc. None of the others had opted for the necropcy, for the same sort of reason as myself... go ahead about a year later...the building owner died, building was sold and the new owner came by to meet all the tenants and mentioned the ant problems the past owner had been trying hard to conquer..thing is..none of the tenants even knew we had an ant problem...because he'd been placing poison below the sinks in our kitchens and bathrooms for about a year without telling anyone.... probably because he didn't want anyone to move out because of the ants..he was rather old and i'm sure it never crossed his mind that the ant killer he was using could harm pets.. i'm sure you can figure out what the cause of death for Scooter probably was! gosh.. sorry for the long winded babble...my point was suppose tto be that there may be a link between the two deaths, even though most illnesses don't effect both cats and dogs.. I'm sure they've both together and very happy to have found one another again! Take care!

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Loop, thanks for your comments. I would've felt the same way you did had I found my cat in Scooter's state--how shocking and horrifying! But there was nothing you could do, obviously. And you did as much as could be done. Thank God you were there to ease Scooter's misery. I know how it feels to be told (or to seemingly be told) you could have done more, right after the death of a beloved (or secretly beloved ) companion--especially when it's quite apparent there wasn't a lot to do, and you did all you could. It sure doesn't help the grieving process, and it hurts like a stab in the heart. My cat didn't get in to anything poisonous or otherwise---I'm pretty sure of that, as we have absolutely no chemicals or drugs in our house. All our plants are non-toxic to cats (and she wasn't one to nibble on them anyway). She hasn't been outside in the cat yard for a long time since it's been really cold here. And I don't think it was her food (wouldn't the other cats be showing some discomfort at least, if that was the case?) The symptoms for poisoning just don't fit her case, although we did check into that. My dog died of Peritonitis (not to be confused with Feline Infectious Peritonitis--peritonitis in the cat disease is just one of the symptoms). She most likely ate something that got lodged in her stomach or ripped her intestine, and within a day she was dead. The vet (another vet) said he sees malamutes all the time with this because many of them eat everything and anything and gulp their food and are especially stoic when something is wrong, so they dont' show any signs of discomfort until it's too late. We have a huge fenced in dog yard for them to play in, and although we are meticulous about keeping it free of known dangers, we can't remove every tree, every branch, every rodent, every bird or every unknown danger. The vet said it wasn't poison, though. And even though we thought canine peritonitis would be accompanied by bloat, he said that isn't always the case. She died within hours of showing the first symptoms and the vet couldn't save her in the end. (I'm bracing for the comments that I could've done more. ) I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm pretty sure the two were not related. Of course, I don't know this for sure, but with all that I've observed and learned I think we've just went through a series of unfortunately rapid yet unlinked events that led to the death of two of my closest friends. I hope no one else has to go through what we've just gone through. We are having a funeral for Miette tonight. This should help us with the grief.

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Ok so I had a chat chit with one of the vets at my clinic briefly and she said that the sloughing off of skin is often seen with dry FIP. i also found out ( i had no idea) that there is a combonaiton form of Wet and Dry FIP that could cause symptoms of both to present themselves. That being said she also thought chylothorax may have been a possibility just as gingerface mentioned.

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I found another infection the could be related for you to look into.. Blastomycosis in Cats.. The organism seems to have preferences for certain body systems, although it is usually disseminated (spread) throughout the entire body. The most common signs are nonspecific; fever, depression, weight loss, and anorexia. Respiratory signs are seen in many cases. The fungus may also invade the lymph nodes, eyes, nervous system, and skin. This fungus most commonly infects humans and animals through the respiratory tract. After spores are inhaled, they settle in the small airways and begin to reproduce. Subsequent to this, the organism spreads throughout the body to involve many organs. Rarely, infection occurs through inoculation of the organism into an open wound. Blastomycosis is a treatable disease, although not all cats will survive. I'm not sure if the symptoms could include abdominal swelling but it is noted that the ailment can spread to different organs so it is possible. The symptoms actually can spread all over the cats body including the skin which is what caught my eye.. and it appears to be common.. The only tests that offer a conclusive diagnosis of blastomycosis are cytology and histopathology. Cytology, the microscopic study of cells, can be performed in the veterinarian's office on some of the fluid draining from an open wound or aspirated from a nodule or lymph node. I got this from allcatshealthcare.com.. check it out

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Thanks for all the links and ideas, guys. I really, really appreciate it. And thanks, Veren, for talking to the vet you know. Chylothorax doesn't seem to fit for a few reasons. First, the fluid is seen in the chest in cats with Chylothorax. Miette's fluid accumulation was in the abdomen and it made her sides swell up. Secondly, one of the first signs of Chylothorax is labored breathing. Miette hardly had labored breathing, although she did have difficulty breathing in the very end. But in Chylothorax the breathing is said to be shallow and rapid. Her's wasn't. Moreover, the fluid seen in Chylothorax is white (or pinky). The fluid taken from Miette was yellow (as seen in FIP). Further, coughing is one of the first signs in many cats with Chylothorax. Miette didn't cough, even when she was showing upper respiratory signs. Blastomycosis doesn't seem to fit either, for a couple of reasons. First, the disease seems to be most prevalent in warm and moist environments. We live in the completely opposite environment: cold (very cold! temperatures included anywhere from -30C to -45C most of the winter), and it is extremely dry. Even the summers aren't very warm. Secondly, even though the symptoms of the disease match what Miette had (anorexia, depression, lethargy, respiratory signs, fever) there is no mention of the other, obvious symptoms that Miette was presenting. I think that it was definitely a combination of wet and dry FIP. I even found a list of symptoms for both which included (in the dry form) granulomas on the kidneys! That's what the vet suspected at first but then he changed his mind when he saw nothing in the xray--he said her kidneys were farther back than in most cats, and that's why he thought something was odd. But he had another vet do a second opinion, and he also felt a mass. However, after seeing the xray, they assumed they had just felt her farther-back-than-normal kidneys and that there was no need for concern. With the dry form of FIP, cats will have neurological and ocular symptoms (which Miette did) and with the wet form, the major symptom is fluid accumulation in the chest and/or abdomen. She definitely had fluid accumulation in her abdomen. Also, if Veren talked to a vet who said the sloughing of skin is seen in the dry form of FIP, I'm further inclined to think FIP. I'm still curious about the leaking (large amounts) of liquid through the skin where the ball of sub-q's sat, though. So, if anyone has ever heard of such a thing, let me know! In every list of symptoms I've found for FIP, I see my cat. She showed many signs of the dry AND wet forms. So sad. We're having a funeral for her tonight. I hope she's at peace...because I sure ain't. Thanks again for all your help and ideas. It means a lot to me that you've taken the time to read, ponder, and respond.

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This may be a stupid question and i appologize but were the fluids leaking out at the site where you inserted the needle to administer the fluids? sometimes they can leak after the needle has been removed. also if the skin was already in a weakened state it may not have been able to withstand the pressure of all the fluid build up. at any rate, my thoughts are with you tonight as you say goodbye to your little one. *hugs*